Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,512 Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #15 on Dec 20, 2008, 8:07pm »
It's actually very rude to do that to someone. Cast them or contact them, then a DAY later, "Oh sorry, I found someone better, I won't be needing your lines anymore."
This has happened to me like 3 times so it's reason 101 why I'm not accepting anymore AIM roles anymore, because someone chatting with me for like an hour and then knocking me off the poll by saying he found someone better after he's already got me doing lines is just uncalled for.
And above all else, when people do that HERE, it really pummels their credibility as a producer. Because you can't trust if they'll stick with you or if they're just gonna jump to the next best VA. Surely no one's gonna want to work with producers like that, because it's just a complete waste of time to try working with someone whose so easily shifty when it comes to sticking to a cast.
Joined: Jun 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 2,076 Location: Laguna
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #16 on Dec 21, 2008, 12:28pm »
This all just boils down to professionalism. When you ask someone to VA for you, you should be convinced that he/she is that one voice you are looking for and that you trust that that voice actor can pull it off. You must be willing to work with whom you've chosen.
Voice actors are not just voices, they're people too and deserve to be treated with respect.
You put up auditions to find the best voice. You scout someone because you are convinced that they have the best voice for the role based on their former works. Casting should not be done at a whim.
It is truly rude to offer someone a role, have them accept then blow them off because you had a spur of the moment Ooh-this-person's-much-better-than-the-one-I-have-now. I am truly grateful I've not had the misfortune yet to encounter something like this.
Casting someone is a conviction, and should not be taken lightly.
Joined: Jul 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,213 Location: Virginia, USA
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #17 on Dec 21, 2008, 12:50pm »
personally, i think it all comes back to the deadline rule.
set a deadline for VA's to send in their auditions. this lets you take the time you need to choose the perfect VA for the role. but before the deadline don't promise the role to anyone just yet. and if you don't have enough auditions or can't find the right voice you were looking for, then you should start scouting people.
also, when scouting, producers should make it clear what they want you to do.
usually when i'm sent a PM for voice work, i usually get 2 kinds:
"hey, i listened to your demo. it's really good. would you be interested in playing (character)?"
or
"hey, i listened to your demo. it's really good. could you please audition for (character)?"
in the first one, the VA would assume that they have already gotten the part. where in the second example, they're simply auditioning and the producer hasn't promised anything.
Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 542 Location: Setting his soul afire.
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #18 on Dec 22, 2008, 10:20pm »
I do the exact thing as retro, making sure that you don't just close the door on one character. but even if asking a VA to voice a part through PM happens, there needs to be indication that the part isn't still up for grabs (editing the audition thread i would say is the big number 1) or specifying that the part wont be able to be auditioned for
what i like doing is scouting before even starting the thread so if i find the perfect voice, i don't even waste my time putting up the character on the audition thread.
Both as a producer and a VA, it hurts to not get a part, to have to tell some one that they didn't get the part. not to mention if you where already told you where going to get it.
any way that we can get this message into the general public on this forum would be beneficial (adding it to the forum rules, or even making it its own bulletin in the audition section) i suppose it never came apparent to me that people did this, and i think the word should be spread.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 4,537 Location: Southern CA, USA
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #19 on Dec 23, 2008, 1:07am »
=P These kinds of things ARE made clear in the rules, stickies, and even announcements, but if it worked the first time, this thread wouldn't be here, now would it?
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 4,283 Location: Final destination. [No items]
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #20 on Dec 23, 2008, 4:15pm »
I'd sticky it in the auditions forum as suggested, but the only problem is that many of the people who do this aren't the ones actually holding auditions---they come to the forum, listen to a few demos, scout people and then change their mind after hearing someone else's demo. I've been getting on the producers who do this via email and some of them realize their mistakes but we have new people every day who don't understand why there is something wrong with offering someone a role and then changing your mind a few days later.
Joined: Nov 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 408 Location: In denial.
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #21 on Dec 23, 2008, 9:55pm »
Wow, I can't believe that people do this! You'd think that'd be just common sense, not to do that. I haven't had it happen to me yet, and I'll make sure that I don't do it to anyone who I ask to be in my machinima.
Joined: Nov 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 50 Location: Texas
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #22 on Dec 31, 2008, 4:32pm »
Well I have to agree. And someone said earlier about waiting months for a few lines...its ok to re-cast then. I have a VA who is just doing his lines for a christmas special now -_-. But its all good, i guess.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 4,283 Location: Final destination. [No items]
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #23 on Jan 6, 2009, 4:21am »
Oh yeah... and "being too well known" is NOT a freaking excuse to recast someone. Choose people for their voice. I'm sorry if someone else comes along who is "not as well known" and you want to "give them a chance". It doesn't work that way. If you cast the part, STICK WITH IT. You can give your friends their pity roles on the next episode. >_>;
Oh yeah... and "being too well known" is NOT a freaking excuse to recast someone. Choose people for their voice. I'm sorry if someone else comes along who is "not as well known" and you want to "give them a chance". It doesn't work that way. If you cast the part, STICK WITH IT. You can give your friends their pity roles on the next episode. >_>;
I think it's safe to say we all feel your pain on that one, lord knows it does get really irritating, how someone thinks they can just justify recasting you after such a short time of you being already casted....and even worse, already HAVING the damn lines done...
But to others, yeah it's a two way street, VA's expect some form of courtesy, and so do the producers. If we can't voice something for an extended period of time, we too, should have the courtesy to let the producers know, so they don't have to wait so long without knowing why, or if the wait's too long, can rightfully recast without being forced to wait on us after like two or so months.
But ultimately, when it actually does happen, not much we can do. After the projects done, we just decide if we ever want to voice for these people again or if we are finished with them for their unreliability.
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #25 on Jan 6, 2009, 2:39pm »
Well that's an odd reason to recast someone. At least in a future project of mine, it'll flat out say "lesser VAs only" as a requirement, so there will be minimal confusion all around.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 4,283 Location: Final destination. [No items]
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #26 on Jan 7, 2009, 3:11am »
But you see, I already did the lines. This producer (as well as SEVERAL others lately) just changed their mind after receiving the files saying they wanted to go with someone "less well known". It's ridiculous, really.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 4,537 Location: Southern CA, USA
Re: Attn Producers: Regarding fairness. « Reply #27 on Jan 7, 2009, 3:44am »
>_x; Entire concept in nutshell: NO TAKE-BACKS
Scouting and found someone you ABSOLUTELY want, no questions about casting, who already agreed to VAing? DONE. NO TAKE-BACKS. Understudy? Okay! But communicate with initial cast FIRST to ensure that lines are in before jumping to next person. End of story!
Deadlines are meant to enforce this no take-backs rule (to in turn prevent drama and complications) and scouting-instead-of-holding-auditions in the hands of an inexperienced producer runs the risk of jeopardizing future productions and reputation.
::runs around chasing indecisive-to-a-MAJOR-fault producers with an ax o' impending death::
Scouting and found someone you ABSOLUTELY want, no questions about casting, who already agreed to VAing? DONE. NO TAKE-BACKS. Understudy? Okay! But communicate with initial cast FIRST to ensure that lines are in before jumping to next person. End of story!
Deadlines are meant to enforce this no take-backs rule (to in turn prevent drama and complications) and scouting-instead-of-holding-auditions in the hands of an inexperienced producer runs the risk of jeopardizing future productions and reputation.
::runs around chasing indecisive-to-a-MAJOR-fault producers with an ax o' impending death::
Even with that last remark (personally, I think chasing people while weilding an ax o' impending death would be terms for overkill), I'd have to agree with Hnilmik fully because, that's just wrong.
CASTING is COMMITTING.
Unless the VA, say:
a.) Is unable to perform b.) Is taking too long to perform c.) Is being unreasonable d.) Is unreachable or disappears from the face of the earth e.) Requests to be out
Then there is no reasonable excuse for uncasting someone, lines done or not. That's just... can't believe I'm going to use this word again... unprofessional.
If a producer wanted a less experienced VA, he/she should have thought of that before choosing the cast in the first place, as Ckwan has demonstrated.
...
It's just a shame that a concept so simple as commitment (well, maybe not that simple) can't sink well with some people. *sighs*
[quote author=hnilmik board=rules thread=11840 post=160124 time=1231317840] Unless the VA, say:
a.) Is unable to perform b.) Is taking too long to perform
I know for a fact I'm still immature because of why I laughed at this. If you don't immediately know what I'm suggesting, then it's probably better that I not tell you.
Regarding the changing of minds while scouting roles, I can't exactly say I've had any experience with the subject, since my first scouted role actually just occurred this year. My main worry, however, isn't so much about the director changing minds, but rather making sure that I get their lines in on time while still performing what they wanted.
There's an air of difference between auditions and scouting, because with auditions, if you're cast, you can ALWAYS find out which audition was the one the director enjoyed most, and then refer to that delivery if you ever forget how you did the voice. With scouting, it's more of a reliance from the director on you to DELIVER the voice without proving you can do it (hence the skipping of the audition section), so I feel pressure regarding what voice is needed and if I'm doing it right. So in a sense, it could be possible that the change in mind could come from the director actually asking themself later, "Can I depend on this person to deliver the voice I want WITHOUT my assistance in helping them find the voice itself?", as the answer to that could definitely show the amount of time they have available to get this project done.
But I suppose that concept is important to nail down, since the professional world often involves more on-the-moment auditions and voices than it does prepared and well-known deliveries.
"Aliens will come to survey our advances in technology, only to find people who s*** in diapers, pleasure themselves to explicit material concerning robotic cats, and the VAA."
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